48 replies to this topic

[TenguNova]

Wrote up a quick blog trying to mildly express my sentiments on Halo 4.

get played

Interesting little blog by u4iX

[RandyROFLSTOMP]

"Halo 4 feels like Halo to the man who believes fake tits can feel natural. We’ve been sucking on a nice pair since Halo: Combat Evolved and Halo 2. Halo 3 was a botched plastic surgery. Halo: Reach was Frankenstein’s bride."

[The Snazzer]

TenguNova, on 07 December 2012 - 01:22 PM, said:

Wrote up a quick blog trying to mildly express my sentiments on Halo 4.

get played

Interesting little blog by u4iX

All we know so far is the Bravo is at 343 and i hope he is changing some minds.

[Alco]

That was really well-written and it packs a powerful punch, but where were you, U4ix, in the months before release?

I don't recall you being particularly concerned about the colossal array of controversial things 343 told us (and crucial things they didn't tell us) in plain language that they were doing.

There were quite a few people who pointed out that our doom was imminent, and those people were ultimately vindicated. What do you, as someone who understands Halo, know about the game now that you couldn't have seen coming pre-release?

[whitecrow]

Alco, on 07 December 2012 - 02:05 PM, said:

That was really well-written and it packs a powerful punch, but where were you, U4ix, in the months before release?

I don't recall you being particularly concerned about the colossal array of controversial things 343 told us (and crucial things they didn't tell us) in plain language that they were doing.

There were quite a few people who pointed out that our doom was imminent, and those people were ultimately vindicated. What do you, as someone who understands Halo, know about the game now that you couldn't have seen coming pre-release?

Before the game was out, myself, like most other people were just very optimistic and so hungry for a new Halo since Reach was terrible we were willing to look past the crappyness 343 said they were implementing and just wait and see how the game turned out.

I remember reading about Ordnances 3 months ago, and saying.. wtf.. that's going to throw off map control, but w/e I'll just see how it ACTUALLY plays out when the game comes out. Back then it wasn't worth making a big hoopla about it, since we were all just craving to play the new game.

Basically, we have beer goggles x100 on from Reach, anything looked better.

[Fusion Vegeto]

I lost so much energy trying to preach the end of days pre-launch. Hopefully all is not lost. Interesting blog read.

[Alco]

whitecrow, on 07 December 2012 - 02:17 PM, said:

Before the game was out, myself, like most other people were just very optimistic and so hungry for a new Halo since Reach was terrible we were willing to look past the crappyness 343 said they were implementing and just wait and see how the game turned out.

I remember reading about Ordnances 3 months ago, and saying.. wtf.. that's going to throw off map control, but w/e I'll just see how it ACTUALLY plays out when the game comes out. Back then it wasn't worth making a big hoopla about it, since we were all just craving to play the new game.

Basically, we have beer goggles x100 on from Reach, anything looked better.

What you mean to say is that you allowed wishful thinking to get in the way of critical thinking.

It's only a wee bit telling that you opted to "look past the crappyness 343 said they were implementing and just wait and see how the game turned out." Do understand the sheer absurdity of what you've just said? You hoped a cake you knew was being made with dog shit would somehow turn out chocolate.

But yeah, "whatever," let's just wait until the game is set in stone, and then when it comes out we'll go from there. No big deal, right? It's not like having an awful game at launch could hurt the game's long-term prospects or anything.

And the pattern you noted isn't unique to Reach. Halo 2 was a downgrade from CE. Halo 3 was a downgrade from Halo 2. Most community members have gone through your cycle of mindless optimism more than once, but the people who've come to "understand Halo" have picked up on this inclination and have a more rigid criteria for assessing a game's prospects than "LOL I HOPE IT GOOD AND THERE IS CHANCE IT COULD B GOOD SO YEAH LOL."

It's cool though, just act dumbfounded and outraged now that it's too late to reverse most of the damage.

[Doju]

Alco, on 07 December 2012 - 02:05 PM, said:

That was really well-written and it packs a powerful punch, but where were you, U4ix, in the months before release?

I don't recall you being particularly concerned about the colossal array of controversial things 343 told us (and crucial things they didn't tell us) in plain language that they were doing.

There were quite a few people who pointed out that our doom was imminent, and those people were ultimately vindicated. What do you, as someone who understands Halo, know about the game now that you couldn't have seen coming pre-release?

I hate to say it, but he's right.

However, this could be said for alot of the different communities before Halo 4.

[_MJ_]

Very well written blog <3

[XHitmanX]

Im just sayin if a developer loved and understood Halo, they would never add sprint ,random ordnance, or flinch to the game. Halo multiplayer was great because it wasn't that BS shooter, now it is that BS shooter....

[TiberiusAudley]

[22:08] <JohnHoward> The Halo 1 pistol wasn't a mistake...
[22:08] <JohnHoward> It was also intended to be the ultimate hold out weapon...
[22:09] <JohnHoward> I always believe that balance is about giving each weapon / ability / whatever it's own perfect situation.
[22:10] <JohnHoward> That said, there's always stuff that gets used as it wasn't intended...
[22:10] <JohnHoward> Using Gust to break your fall.
[22:11] <JohnHoward> Chucking an Anti-magic generator at a wall just before you teleport through it so your attacker can't follow you
[22:11] <JohnHoward> Even using Teleport as a super-jump wasn't something we thought about before we implemented it.
[22:12] <JohnHoward> The amount of cool emergent stuff in Shadowrun has been one of the most entertaining thing about working on the game.


Wouldn't it sure be nice to have a developer like that working on a Halo game again...? >.>

(Also, credit to Hitzel -- as he's actually the one who posted that chat excerpt originally on the MLG forums... 5 and a half years ago.)

[XHitmanX]

TiberiusAudley, on 08 December 2012 - 02:30 AM, said:

[22:08] <JohnHoward> The Halo 1 pistol wasn't a mistake...
[22:08] <JohnHoward> It was also intended to be the ultimate hold out weapon...
[22:09] <JohnHoward> I always believe that balance is about giving each weapon / ability / whatever it's own perfect situation.
[22:10] <JohnHoward> That said, there's always stuff that gets used as it wasn't intended...
[22:10] <JohnHoward> Using Gust to break your fall.
[22:11] <JohnHoward> Chucking an Anti-magic generator at a wall just before you teleport through it so your attacker can't follow you
[22:11] <JohnHoward> Even using Teleport as a super-jump wasn't something we thought about before we implemented it.
[22:12] <JohnHoward> The amount of cool emergent stuff in Shadowrun has been one of the most entertaining thing about working on the game.


Wouldn't it sure be nice to have a developer like that working on a Halo game again...? >.>

(Also, credit to Hitzel -- as he's actually the one who posted that chat excerpt originally on the MLG forums... 5 and a half years ago.)

http://forums.majorl...-halo-1-pistol/- funny to see the H1 pros reaction to that, that is when everyone was jumping on the Shadowrun bandwagon.

Seriously, I wish guys like John Howard would of stayed with Halo, hes the GOAT competitive console shooter dev. Maybe then pre-patch H2 SMG starts and 8 shot BR wouldnt of happened

[External Memory]

Alco, on 07 December 2012 - 02:05 PM, said:

That was really well-written

wat

He should stick to tweets. Dude shouldn't be allowed within 100 feet of a metaphor.

[HellRazor1281]

Laser, on 08 December 2012 - 03:47 AM, said:

But but Frank....there is no one in the world that knows more about Halo than 343. The devs make the game, so they obviously know everything about it. /stupidity

I'd love to see where 343 said they knew more than everyone else about halo.

[HellRazor1281]

What is John Howard doing these days?  

If he's not busy, I vote replacing Kevin Franklin with Howard immediately.

[Tennet]

HellRazor1281, on 08 December 2012 - 11:49 AM, said:

I'd love to see where 343 said they knew more than everyone else about halo.

Don't be stupid, everyone on waypoint knows the devs know more than everyone else. The Carbine has the fastest kill time, remember?

[HellRazor1281]

Well it did before they nerfed it.

Waypointers said that, 343 themselves didn't.  If they did I would curse them the fuck out.

[Tennet]

Kevin Franklin still believes it is...

[HellRazor1281]

Tennet, on 08 December 2012 - 12:01 PM, said:

Kevin Franklin still believes it is...

Hence why he needs to be replaced ASAP.

[cT]

TiberiusAudley, on 08 December 2012 - 02:30 AM, said:

[22:08] <JohnHoward> The Halo 1 pistol wasn't a mistake...
[22:08] <JohnHoward> It was also intended to be the ultimate hold out weapon...
[22:09] <JohnHoward> I always believe that balance is about giving each weapon / ability / whatever it's own perfect situation.
[22:10] <JohnHoward> That said, there's always stuff that gets used as it wasn't intended...
[22:10] <JohnHoward> Using Gust to break your fall.
[22:11] <JohnHoward> Chucking an Anti-magic generator at a wall just before you teleport through it so your attacker can't follow you
[22:11] <JohnHoward> Even using Teleport as a super-jump wasn't something we thought about before we implemented it.
[22:12] <JohnHoward> The amount of cool emergent stuff in Shadowrun has been one of the most entertaining thing about working on the game.


Wouldn't it sure be nice to have a developer like that working on a Halo game again...? >.>

(Also, credit to Hitzel -- as he's actually the one who posted that chat excerpt originally on the MLG forums... 5 and a half years ago.)

Even better than that, he's the one who ASKED THE QUESTION during fan interview thing Howard was doing.

I will love hitzel forever if only for that.

[Tennet]

Well, I love John Howard for being intelligent with game design.

[Sitri]

Tennet, on 08 December 2012 - 12:01 PM, said:

Kevin Franklin still believes it is...

Kevin Franklin also likes SWAT and has worked on a Need for Speed game.

[sg1elim89]

I think we all agree. Don't fucking sit on our asses when all this shit is being added to our game. Speak out against it before its too late.

[Tennet]

SitriStahl, on 08 December 2012 - 01:03 PM, said:

Kevin Franklin also likes SWAT and has worked on a Need for Speed game.

I just pictured the I have no idea what I'm doing dog..

[iambicjelly]

SitriStahl, on 08 December 2012 - 01:03 PM, said:

Kevin Franklin also likes SWAT and has worked on a Need for Speed game.

I like SWAT too

[Sitri]

iambicjelly, on 08 December 2012 - 01:13 PM, said:

I like SWAT too

SWAT is his favorite gametype.

[HellRazor1281]

Swat is fun if you're looking for a BS gametype to relax with.  But Kevin Franklin liking swat doesn't surprise me in the slightest when he ruined socom for codifying it.

https://forums.halow...r-Designer.aspx

I really wish I knew this beforehand.  We need to take him to task on this.

[EK Elmo]

Alco, on 07 December 2012 - 06:31 PM, said:

What you mean to say is that you allowed wishful thinking to get in the way of critical thinking.

It's only a wee bit telling that you opted to "look past the crappyness 343 said they were implementing and just wait and see how the game turned out." Do understand the sheer absurdity of what you've just said? You hoped a cake you knew was being made with dog shit would somehow turn out chocolate.

But yeah, "whatever," let's just wait until the game is set in stone, and then when it comes out we'll go from there. No big deal, right? It's not like having an awful game at launch could hurt the game's long-term prospects or anything.

And the pattern you noted isn't unique to Reach. Halo 2 was a downgrade from CE. Halo 3 was a downgrade from Halo 2. Most community members have gone through your cycle of mindless optimism more than once, but the people who've come to "understand Halo" have picked up on this inclination and have a more rigid criteria for assessing a game's prospects than "LOL I HOPE IT GOOD AND THERE IS CHANCE IT COULD B GOOD SO YEAH LOL."

It's cool though, just act dumbfounded and outraged now that it's too late to reverse most of the damage.

HOW IN HELL IS H2 a downgrade and H3 a downgrade? Are you retarded? H2 then H3 almost achieved the pinnacle of online gaming, Reach sucked ass without a doubt but claiming that H1 was the best? Bro, you're drowning me in your nostalgia.

[EK Elmo]

HellRazor1281, on 08 December 2012 - 01:16 PM, said:

Swat is fun if you're looking for a BS gametype to relax with.  But Kevin Franklin liking swat doesn't surprise me in the slightest when he ruined socom for codifying it.

https://forums.halow...r-Designer.aspx

I really wish I knew this beforehand.  We need to take him to task on this.

Wow, great post.

[Akuma Matata]

EK Elmo, on 09 December 2012 - 02:11 AM, said:

HOW IN HELL IS H2 a downgrade and H3 a downgrade? Are you retarded? H2 then H3 almost achieved the pinnacle of online gaming, Reach sucked ass without a doubt but claiming that H1 was the best? Bro, you're drowning me in your nostalgia.

LOLOL.

You must think that having the most difficult aiming in any Halo, best spawn system, most teamwork, most individual skill, most difficult sniper, best maps (imo), best utility weapon, best sandbox, most difficult melees and fastest gameplay is WORSE than any of the other Halos?

Please, never speak of gaming, game development or competitive merit in any video game you see

[XHitmanX]

Hmmm....on the topic of Shadowrun since the correlation between Shadowrun and then the core Ex-Shadowrun devs coming over to Bungie to make Halo Reach is too uncanny to ignore.

This is from an IGN article where they were comparing Shadowrun to Halo+CS. http://kotaku.com/25...talks-shadowrun

Quote

Sage Merill(Sandbox designer on Reach) - Shadowrun combat its less about perfect aiming, and more about superior position. You choose when you enter and when you leave combat. It is a constant chess match to maneuver into situations where you have the advantage. In Halo 2, you win the fight, or you die. Halo 2 is all about your aiming skill, and it's difficult to disengage once a fight starts.

Last part is only true if you're comparing Halo to Shadowrun. Very interesting, could this be why they added heavy defensive AA's+Reticle bloom to Halo Reach? They took Halo's more simplistic/unforgiving combat and "Two men enters the better man wins" type battles as perceived flaws? This would at least clear up why AA's and such were added in the first place to a shooter that was in many ways built on simplicity in many aspects of the combat. I like to think of Halo as a less is more type shooter, the parts have to all fit in order for the game to truly reach its potential. Its why I disagree with some of the AA's and the decision to add reticle bloom to precision weapons.

I suppose the best way to put it is why we like Halo  is the opposite of why we like Shadowrun. Halo is faster-paced, simplistic in combat, and modeled like an Arena shooter(it used to be anyway). Shadowrun was built on heavier team-work concepts and is a FPS with RPG elements. All the magic abilities and reticle bloom on the precision weapons is to encourage the more patient/elimination-based, Team-oriented combat Shadowrun is going for.

The teamwork of Halo on the other hand, is not based on synergizing abilities and different classes. All professional Halo players have to be able to fill each role to be successful in the fast-paced adaptive type combat that is common in 4v4 Halo. Trying to implement some of the concepts of Shadowrun into Halo in some way defeated the "Raw", "skill-based" type combat that the Halo trilogy was known for. On smaller maps and a in a faster-paced game, these abilities disrupted the flow and the concept of map control. Jet-packs defeated the need to carefully plot and move around the map, evade on smaller maps was OP, camo in tight quarters was just plain annoying, AL....yea nuff said.  

I truly believe the "less is more" concept applies perfectly here when talking about the Halo trilogy gameplay compared to post-Reach Halo ESPECIALLY when you are talking about trying to create a fast-paced competitive shooter prime for small-team based play.

[KevinCARES]

Cows say meow, on 09 December 2012 - 02:28 AM, said:

LOLOL.

You must think that having the most difficult aiming in any Halo, best spawn system, most teamwork, most individual skill, most difficult sniper, best maps (imo), best utility weapon, best sandbox, most difficult melees and fastest gameplay is WORSE than any of the other Halos?

Please, never speak of gaming, game development or competitive merit in any video game you see

CE shouldn't even be brought up when we're comparing these other games. CE is essentially a fork to a spork when you put it alongside 2 and 3.

[XHitmanX]

KevinCARES, on 09 December 2012 - 03:29 AM, said:

CE shouldn't even be brought up when we're comparing these other games. CE is essentially a fork to a spork when you put it alongside 2 and 3.

From a hardcore POV I dont think any of the Halo's are similar really. Just the change from the CE pistol to the BR is already a drastic change on a competitive level. Or even the Halo 2 BR to the Halo 3 BR. Then you can talk about the MAJOR physic changes from Halo 2 to Halo 3 to Halo Reach, or how drastically AA's+sprint changed the core combat. Its really amazing that the OG veterans like Ogre 2 or even Roybox have adapted so well to each Halo when they are so drastically different. Halo 4 is a complete overhaul once again from the Sandbox set-up, to the golden triangle, to the physics, to the power item system, to the maps.

I HATE it when ignorant people say "Halo 3 was Halo 2.5" or "Reach was not that different" because obviously they dont know the major changes on every level between each Halo game.

[Akuma Matata]

^ This.

The closest relations to two Halo games are Reach mlgv7 and H2.

Of course they're not very close or anything but they're the closest compared to the other Halo games

[The Snazzer]

Look kevin, go work on Cod, they will love your ideas, its a huge game, the fanbase won't care if you fuck up and overall we just don't like you. You Smell.

[Raynard]

EK Elmo, on 09 December 2012 - 02:11 AM, said:

HOW IN HELL IS H2 a downgrade and H3 a downgrade? Are you retarded? H2 then H3 almost achieved the pinnacle of online gaming, Reach sucked ass without a doubt but claiming that H1 was the best? Bro, you're drowning me in your nostalgia.

I couldn't even find a meme to explain how retarded this post is.

[Nightsnipe]

Some of the best things about CE and Halo 2 weren't even intentional

[RVG E Nomini]

Nightsnipe, on 09 December 2012 - 05:37 PM, said:

Some of the best things about CE weren't even intentional

Such as?

[XHitmanX]

Cows say meow, on 09 December 2012 - 04:07 AM, said:

^ This.

The closest relations to two Halo games are Reach mlgv7 and H2.

Of course they're not very close or anything but they're the closest compared to the other Halo games

Cows say meow, on 09 December 2012 - 04:07 AM, said:

^ This.

The closest relations to two Halo games are Reach mlgv7 and H2.

Of course they're not very close or anything but they're the closest compared to the other Halo games

I actually think post-patch Reach and Halo 4 play the most similar. That has alot to do with the DMR, AA's,sprint, maps being lager, PW's being really powerful, the ease of getting headshots, and just the feel of the movement and heavy physics(Compared to the lighter more floatier physics of the Halo trilogy games), kill times, heavy grenade physics ect...

That would also explain why i didnt like Reach and I am not liking H4 so far.